Conza

good-gollymissmolly:

conza replied to your post: conza replied to your post: conza replied to your…

The structure remains the same. Shouldn’t the victim, or next of kin be the ones determining the level of punishment? (If ‘aggressor’ found guilty by the judge, jury etc.) Not the state, or yourself? youtube.com/watch?v… :)

What about victims who don’t have a next of kin?  Or a murderer with multiple victims whose next of kins don’t agree?

A very good question Molly. I actually had to stop and think about this (for those who might want to catch up on the exchange [1], [2], [3]). To address your first question..

If the victim had a will, which in a free society built on contracts would be more likely, they’d specify how to deal with such a situation if it were to arise - i.e issues relating to their death, organ donation etc. Dealing with their aggressor -if there is one- would be apart of that, and simply mean following through with their stated wishes. Either in relation to damages and the next of kin affected (children, dependents, spouse), or enacting the ultimate punishment: death. As pointed out in the Bob Murphy video linked above (which you didn’t watch ;p) I think more people would side with putting the ‘murderer’ to work, as opposed to removing their existence, though that is certainly an option.

If there isn’t a will to follow, is someone else able to step in and prosecute as an agent on behalf of the victim? First this needs to be broken down, it’s like there is a property conflict, but one side is missing and would be unable to bring the matter personally to court.  ‘Agents’ can certainly do it for you, but if you hadn’t organized such a thing prior to, then how has the issue come to attention?

Someone must suspect foul play, investigate, find the ‘murderer’ and bring them to trial to see if they are guilty. Who could that be? Who has an incentive to investigate? The insurance company for starters, or some other interested party. Also where did the person die, on whose property? If a renter, then that’s the landlord. If a home owner with a mortgage, then the bank. These institutions, including others in the local community have a direct interest in seeing the criminal be reprimanded so it doesn’t happen again, because it drives down local values and prices, whilst it would raise their insurance premiums given an increase in crime in the area.

The only reason the state is interested, is because it lost a tax payer, and you can’t have people going around killing more taxpayers. That’s the government’s job.

In a free society anyone would be able to take precautionary action against a dangerous person that they suspect for whatever reason. If a person feels there is a dangerous person out there that isn’t being dealt with, then the logical place to address would be any of the local security agencies, because they stand to lose by it (they offer safety as a good).

So the security agencies (or the insurance agencies), would investigate that person’s background, their standing in the community, people who support them, etc. But the point is that the whole community has an interest in dealing with dangerous people. It is today that we have no way of filtering out good from bad people; it’s made illegal through legislation.

For example, it’s illegal to disallow people from your business (egalitarian, anti-discrimination legislation). Illegal to store trade and crime information (‘privacy’ legislation). We want to do those things, it’s in our interest, but we can’t because we live under a monopoly.

People have a reputation, which can be tarnished through contract arbitration and ostracism, but can also be tarnished through publication of evidence. Which anyone is free to do (unless singing a NDA I suppose), and anyone would be free to act on. However, you are currently not free to protect yourself and your community. Dealing privately with criminals would be perceived very differently probably, in the public eye. Because we would know exactly who is dangerous, yet out there. Best we know now is sex offenders; which a lot of the time was consensual.

The importance of next of kins are only relevant in terms of damages, not so much in terms of reputation/danger.

Or a murderer with multiple victims whose next of kins don’t agree?

I think this would be settled in arbitration among the families after conviction. Prior to, we can only speculate what a private law society would look like. Would there be multiple individual cases brought by the separate dispute resolution agencies against the one individual, or would it essentially take the form of a ‘class action’ suit where the plaintiffs all line up as one against the defendant. Who knows?

Naturally though, the more folks involved the less chance of agreement. The point being though, in a free society, the tendency would be exceedingly towards murder sprees not happening - given proper competitive protection and insurance agencies, not the inefficient monopoly we have now.